Wednesday, September 23, 2009
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
A Conversation about Heaven & Exclusivity
Bobby slammed his coffee cup on the counter a little bit harder than he intended to: “You see, this is what frustrates me about you Christians. You all think that only Christians will be in Heaven. What about other people, like Gandhi, Buddha, or any other number of good people?”
Greg was a little surprised a Bobby’s intensity. They had connected a couple times previously in the semester getting coffee before their Philosophy 301 class and had always enjoyed asking each other what they believed. Greg tilted his head a bit and suggested somewhat teasingly, “Well, Bobby, I’m glad that you at least believe in Heaven.”
“Now, I didn’t say that, I consider myself open to the idea. But…," and then he hesitated.
They both sat down and poured packets of sugar into their coffee. “But…if there were a heaven, Christians are wrong about it?” Greg offered.
“They are wrong about it if they think that only Christians will be there. That’s just too…too…?”
“Exclusive? You think Christians are too exclusive.”
“Exactly,” nodded Bobby. The two college juniors sat in the corner where the sun was shining through the blinds.
“Okay,” said Greg, pausing. “It sounds like you’ve spent some time thinking about this. Let me ask you a question.”
“Shoot.”
“What kinds of people will be there?”
Bobby didn’t hesitate. “All kinds of people will be there, young & old, rich & poor, Jews, Christians, Muslims & non-religious folks.”
“What about Atheists?”
Bobby looked up for a moment weighing the question. “Sure, I know many Atheists who are good people. There’s no reason they shouldn’t be there, even if they don’t believe in God now.”
Greg took an unusually slow slip on his coffee, gathering his thoughts. “So you believe that good people go to heaven?”
“Yes! And—I must say—that’s much more inclusive and open-minded than you Christians,” Bobby said with a smile and a bit of satisfaction.
“Okay, now I’m confused,” Greg said throwing open his free hand.
“What do you mean?”
Greg leaned forward in his sofa chair. “I thought you were worried about Christians being too exclusive, but your view takes the cake!”
“I’m not sure I’m following you,” Bobby said hesitatingly, not wanting to take the bait. “What do you mean?”
“Well, maybe you can clarify this for me. You say that all kinds of good people—Muslims, Jews, Christians, and even good Atheists—will be in heaven because they have been, well, good.”
“Yes…?” Bobby was wondering where Greg was going with this.
“That view is much more ‘exclusive’ than what Christians believe.” Greg threw himself back into his chair shaking his head.
“How so?”
“What about the bad people?” Greg said protesting. “I mean, people who’ve broken the big commandments: liars, cheaters, murderers, adulterers? According to your view, they have no hope of heaven.”
“Okay. What are you saying?”
“I’m saying that your standard requirement for getting into heaven is that people have to be ‘good,’ but that excludes a lot of people.”
“Hmmm…okay. You got me," Bobby answered, somewhat sarcastically.
“Bobby, I’m not trying to get you. I’m just trying to understand your view."
"But that doesn’t exonerate Christianity’s exclusivity.”
"Look, everyone is exclusive on this issue, unless you want to say that everyone goes to Heaven when they die. But not many people want to say that. I mean, do you believe that Hitler will be in Heaven? There has to be an accounting, somehow. There has to be some kind of judgment for those folks, don’t you agree?”
Bobby nodded his head in agreement setting his coffee on the table. “Yeah, I can’t see God throwing open ‘the golden gates’ for the likes of Hitler, Moa-Tse Tung, Lenin, & the like,” he said as he threw open his arms in a big welcoming gesture.
Greg leaned forward again. “But here is the deal. Christianity says that there is hope for everyone, even for the really bad people too.”
“What do you mean?”
“Well, if we take seriously what the Bible says, everyone has sinned against God, and nobody is perfect, not even one. Yet God requires perfection.”
“Well, if that’s the case, then what hope is there for anyone?”
“Well, that’s just my point. Here’s the heart of the Christian message: God himself came to earth in the person of Jesus Christ. He lived the perfect life, which means he loved God and others perfectly. And he voluntarily gave up his life when he died on the cross for people like you and me.”
“Okay," said Bobby as he was looking up tracking the argument. "I think I’m following you.”
“Do you know what the Apostle Paul said that I find so encouraging?”
“No, what?” They both stopped and looked up at a group of co-eds who entered the coffee shop laughing hysterically.
Greg & Bobby looked back at each other and busted out laughing, shaking their heads. After a moment, Greg continued, “He said something along the lines of, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.”
“An Apostle of Jesus Christ said that he was the worst of sinners?” Bobby asked incredulously.
Greg nodded.
“Why would he say that?”
“Well, before he became a Christian, he was hunting down Christians and killing them. Speaking of his pre-Christian days, Paul said that he was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man.”
A light seemed to be going off in Bobby’s mind, “And Jesus somehow made the difference?”
“Exactly,” Greg said with a smile. “Paul went on to say that it was because of this very reason—that he was the worst of sinners—that he was shown mercy, so that the Lord Jesus might use him as an example of his patience towards those who would come to believe on him.”
Bobby leaned forward, “You mean to tell me that Paul was saying that his hope of heaven was not because he was good, but because he was bad.”
Greg chuckled reassuringly. “You're starting to get it. Paul wasn’t good, even though he excelled as a Pharisee—that is, a religious teacher,” he clarified. “In many ways, he had to abandon all hope in his goodness and throw himself at the mercy of Jesus.”
Greg paused to make sure Bobby understood. Bobby was nodding his head like it was all sinking in. “Go on,” he said.
That’s why I said earlier that a standard that says, ‘All good people get into heaven,’ is actually very exclusive, much more so than Christianity. Christianity says that even bad people have reason to hope for mercy if they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for only bad people.”
“I think I’m getting what you are saying.”
“Let that sink in. I truly believe that Christianity is unique, because it doesn’t tell you to go out and make religious pilgrimages, or to pray a certain number of times per day in a certain direction, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, or do x, y, & z. It tells you to abandon all hopes of impressing God with your goodness—because you can’t—and to believe in the Lord Jesus who actually saves people like us and people who are ‘worse’ than us and people who are ‘better’ than us.”
“Well Greg, this has been an interesting conversation. I have never seen things that way before.”
“I used to not, either. I’m glad we had this time to chat in between classes.”
The two rose and put on their backpacks.
“Me too. Maybe we can carry on this conversation later?”
“I’d love to. Because our hope is not really Heaven, but Heaven on earth.”
“Wow. We’ll definitely have to carry this conversation on later.”
Greg was a little surprised a Bobby’s intensity. They had connected a couple times previously in the semester getting coffee before their Philosophy 301 class and had always enjoyed asking each other what they believed. Greg tilted his head a bit and suggested somewhat teasingly, “Well, Bobby, I’m glad that you at least believe in Heaven.”
“Now, I didn’t say that, I consider myself open to the idea. But…," and then he hesitated.
They both sat down and poured packets of sugar into their coffee. “But…if there were a heaven, Christians are wrong about it?” Greg offered.
“They are wrong about it if they think that only Christians will be there. That’s just too…too…?”
“Exclusive? You think Christians are too exclusive.”
“Exactly,” nodded Bobby. The two college juniors sat in the corner where the sun was shining through the blinds.
“Okay,” said Greg, pausing. “It sounds like you’ve spent some time thinking about this. Let me ask you a question.”
“Shoot.”
“What kinds of people will be there?”
Bobby didn’t hesitate. “All kinds of people will be there, young & old, rich & poor, Jews, Christians, Muslims & non-religious folks.”
“What about Atheists?”
Bobby looked up for a moment weighing the question. “Sure, I know many Atheists who are good people. There’s no reason they shouldn’t be there, even if they don’t believe in God now.”
Greg took an unusually slow slip on his coffee, gathering his thoughts. “So you believe that good people go to heaven?”
“Yes! And—I must say—that’s much more inclusive and open-minded than you Christians,” Bobby said with a smile and a bit of satisfaction.
“Okay, now I’m confused,” Greg said throwing open his free hand.
“What do you mean?”
Greg leaned forward in his sofa chair. “I thought you were worried about Christians being too exclusive, but your view takes the cake!”
“I’m not sure I’m following you,” Bobby said hesitatingly, not wanting to take the bait. “What do you mean?”
“Well, maybe you can clarify this for me. You say that all kinds of good people—Muslims, Jews, Christians, and even good Atheists—will be in heaven because they have been, well, good.”
“Yes…?” Bobby was wondering where Greg was going with this.
“That view is much more ‘exclusive’ than what Christians believe.” Greg threw himself back into his chair shaking his head.
“How so?”
“What about the bad people?” Greg said protesting. “I mean, people who’ve broken the big commandments: liars, cheaters, murderers, adulterers? According to your view, they have no hope of heaven.”
“Okay. What are you saying?”
“I’m saying that your standard requirement for getting into heaven is that people have to be ‘good,’ but that excludes a lot of people.”
“Hmmm…okay. You got me," Bobby answered, somewhat sarcastically.
“Bobby, I’m not trying to get you. I’m just trying to understand your view."
"But that doesn’t exonerate Christianity’s exclusivity.”
"Look, everyone is exclusive on this issue, unless you want to say that everyone goes to Heaven when they die. But not many people want to say that. I mean, do you believe that Hitler will be in Heaven? There has to be an accounting, somehow. There has to be some kind of judgment for those folks, don’t you agree?”
Bobby nodded his head in agreement setting his coffee on the table. “Yeah, I can’t see God throwing open ‘the golden gates’ for the likes of Hitler, Moa-Tse Tung, Lenin, & the like,” he said as he threw open his arms in a big welcoming gesture.
Greg leaned forward again. “But here is the deal. Christianity says that there is hope for everyone, even for the really bad people too.”
“What do you mean?”
“Well, if we take seriously what the Bible says, everyone has sinned against God, and nobody is perfect, not even one. Yet God requires perfection.”
“Well, if that’s the case, then what hope is there for anyone?”
“Well, that’s just my point. Here’s the heart of the Christian message: God himself came to earth in the person of Jesus Christ. He lived the perfect life, which means he loved God and others perfectly. And he voluntarily gave up his life when he died on the cross for people like you and me.”
“Okay," said Bobby as he was looking up tracking the argument. "I think I’m following you.”
“Do you know what the Apostle Paul said that I find so encouraging?”
“No, what?” They both stopped and looked up at a group of co-eds who entered the coffee shop laughing hysterically.
Greg & Bobby looked back at each other and busted out laughing, shaking their heads. After a moment, Greg continued, “He said something along the lines of, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.”
“An Apostle of Jesus Christ said that he was the worst of sinners?” Bobby asked incredulously.
Greg nodded.
“Why would he say that?”
“Well, before he became a Christian, he was hunting down Christians and killing them. Speaking of his pre-Christian days, Paul said that he was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man.”
A light seemed to be going off in Bobby’s mind, “And Jesus somehow made the difference?”
“Exactly,” Greg said with a smile. “Paul went on to say that it was because of this very reason—that he was the worst of sinners—that he was shown mercy, so that the Lord Jesus might use him as an example of his patience towards those who would come to believe on him.”
Bobby leaned forward, “You mean to tell me that Paul was saying that his hope of heaven was not because he was good, but because he was bad.”
Greg chuckled reassuringly. “You're starting to get it. Paul wasn’t good, even though he excelled as a Pharisee—that is, a religious teacher,” he clarified. “In many ways, he had to abandon all hope in his goodness and throw himself at the mercy of Jesus.”
Greg paused to make sure Bobby understood. Bobby was nodding his head like it was all sinking in. “Go on,” he said.
That’s why I said earlier that a standard that says, ‘All good people get into heaven,’ is actually very exclusive, much more so than Christianity. Christianity says that even bad people have reason to hope for mercy if they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for only bad people.”
“I think I’m getting what you are saying.”
“Let that sink in. I truly believe that Christianity is unique, because it doesn’t tell you to go out and make religious pilgrimages, or to pray a certain number of times per day in a certain direction, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, or do x, y, & z. It tells you to abandon all hopes of impressing God with your goodness—because you can’t—and to believe in the Lord Jesus who actually saves people like us and people who are ‘worse’ than us and people who are ‘better’ than us.”
“Well Greg, this has been an interesting conversation. I have never seen things that way before.”
“I used to not, either. I’m glad we had this time to chat in between classes.”
The two rose and put on their backpacks.
“Me too. Maybe we can carry on this conversation later?”
“I’d love to. Because our hope is not really Heaven, but Heaven on earth.”
“Wow. We’ll definitely have to carry this conversation on later.”
Friday, September 11, 2009
"If 19-year-old boys are ruining your day because of what they do with a ball, that's a problem."
JT linked to an interview with Matt Chandler of The Village. He asks two questions:
I love sports. I used to love them too much. I, along with any number of sports fanatics, would have my day--no, my week--ruined by a game. I had too much invested there. Thankfully, I've made some progress in this. My wife seems to think this is why the Aggies have stunk for so long, b/c God was dealing with my idol. If that's the case, sorry Ags. He has been messing with yours too!
Secondly, while fully agreeing that there are times when we simply need to "walk away" from those things that ruin our affections for Christ, we still need to work through them. For example, food can function this way. But we can't go cold turkey on food!
What we need to do is learn to use the gift of food for God's glory. Same thing with alcohol, sex, influence, tv, investing, shopping, parks, facebook, etc. No, I'm not saying everyone has to use each and every gift from God. But sometimes, I fear the impression is given that the answer to our struggles is simply to 'walk away' from 'the things of the world' instead of learning to engage them correctly.
The Christian life is then viewed merely as a strategy of keeping the corrupting influence of the world far away, rather than dealing with the corruption within my own heart that takes the good gifts of God and perverts them for my own selfish reasons. In other words, it's a problem when the problem is viewed 'out there' and not within the core of my being. If it is out there, I can manage the issue. If it's "in here", then I desperately need Christ.
The worst examples of this are people who say sports, drink, tv, etc., always ruin appetite for Christ. Therefore it is always wrong for everyone to participate in these activities. The word for this is legalism. [Disclaimer: No, I'm not saying this is what Chandler is saying.]
So how should a Christian view sports? Should s/he have nothing to do with it? I think that part of the solution is to bring our thinking under the lordship of Christ. Or another way to put it is, How should we think Christianly about sports? Is it possible that sports can actually increase my appetite for Christ? I believe so.
To that end, here's a good book that I would recommend as well: Game Day for the Glory of God: A Guide for Athletes, Fans, & Wannabes.
Says the author, a self avowed Christian who 'absolutely loves sports,'
This new one looks good too, though I haven't read it yet: The Reason for Sports: A Christian Fanifesto.
Here's a link to the whole Chandler interview.
* What stirs your affections for Jesus Christ?So far, so good. Then he gets to meddling, as they say.
* And what robs you of those affections?
Sanctification here at The Village begins by answering two questions. What stirs your affections for Jesus Christ? And what robs you of those affections? Many of the things that stifle growth are morally neutral. They're not bad things. Facebook is not bad. Television and movies are not bad. I enjoy TV, but it doesn't take long for me to begin to find humorous on TV what the Lord finds heartbreaking.Great words to remember. I have a few thoughts.The same goes for following sports. It's not wrong, but if I start watching sports, I begin to care too much. I get stupid. If 19-year-old boys are ruining your day because of what they do with a ball, that's a problem. These things rob my affections for Christ. I want to fill my life with things that stir my affections for him. . . .
We want our people to think beyond simply what's right and wrong. We want them to fill their lives with things that stir their affections for Jesus Christ and, as best as they can, to walk away from things that rob those affections—even when they're not immoral.
I love sports. I used to love them too much. I, along with any number of sports fanatics, would have my day--no, my week--ruined by a game. I had too much invested there. Thankfully, I've made some progress in this. My wife seems to think this is why the Aggies have stunk for so long, b/c God was dealing with my idol. If that's the case, sorry Ags. He has been messing with yours too!
Secondly, while fully agreeing that there are times when we simply need to "walk away" from those things that ruin our affections for Christ, we still need to work through them. For example, food can function this way. But we can't go cold turkey on food!
What we need to do is learn to use the gift of food for God's glory. Same thing with alcohol, sex, influence, tv, investing, shopping, parks, facebook, etc. No, I'm not saying everyone has to use each and every gift from God. But sometimes, I fear the impression is given that the answer to our struggles is simply to 'walk away' from 'the things of the world' instead of learning to engage them correctly.
The Christian life is then viewed merely as a strategy of keeping the corrupting influence of the world far away, rather than dealing with the corruption within my own heart that takes the good gifts of God and perverts them for my own selfish reasons. In other words, it's a problem when the problem is viewed 'out there' and not within the core of my being. If it is out there, I can manage the issue. If it's "in here", then I desperately need Christ.
The worst examples of this are people who say sports, drink, tv, etc., always ruin appetite for Christ. Therefore it is always wrong for everyone to participate in these activities. The word for this is legalism. [Disclaimer: No, I'm not saying this is what Chandler is saying.]
So how should a Christian view sports? Should s/he have nothing to do with it? I think that part of the solution is to bring our thinking under the lordship of Christ. Or another way to put it is, How should we think Christianly about sports? Is it possible that sports can actually increase my appetite for Christ? I believe so.
To that end, here's a good book that I would recommend as well: Game Day for the Glory of God: A Guide for Athletes, Fans, & Wannabes.
Says the author, a self avowed Christian who 'absolutely loves sports,'
"DO I ever thank god for the incredible amount of pleasure that I receive from sports...? Let us resolve from this point forward that we will not enjoy the gift of sports without giving thanks and honor to the Giver himself. Let us recognize that sports are indeed gifts from a generous God to undeserving sinners, and let our enjoyment of sports be marked by thankful hearts."Simply put, yes, we can enjoy sports as a gift from God, but like any of His gifts, we value the gift over the Giver of the gift. That's where the trouble begins, and what I think Chandler is talking about.
This new one looks good too, though I haven't read it yet: The Reason for Sports: A Christian Fanifesto.
Here's a link to the whole Chandler interview.
Pondering these quotes....
"The Church exists by mission as fire exists by burning."~ qtd. in God's Missionary People, ch. 1
- Emil Brunner
"There is no participation in Christ without participation in His mission to the world. That by which the Church receives its existence [i.e., the life of Christ] is that by which it is also given its world mission."
"In choosing a people, God intended to reach out to the whole world.... 'In choosing Israel as segment of all humanity, God never took his eye off the other nations; Israel was the pars pro toto, a minority called to serve the majority. God's election of Abraham and Israel concerns the whole world."~ qtd. in God's Missionary People, ch. 3
"The Church is not an exclusive club of privilege, neither is it a place to rest from our labors. We have been brought in so that we may gather others into this Kingdom of grace."
Flickr Favorites: Indian Summer Sunset
I wish I were sitting here on the dock fishing, dreaming, praying.
Wednesday, September 9, 2009
Monday, August 31, 2009
It's All About Socializ...uh...uh....ummm
Liberal Democrat Maxine Waters lets her true colors show. But why does she catch herself? The reaction of others at the hearing behind Waters is worth its weight in gold!
Ummm...I guess the Constitution is irrelevant.
Ummm...I guess the Constitution is irrelevant.
Saturday, August 29, 2009
Wednesday, August 26, 2009
Wonderful Anniversary Celebration
To celebrate our 16th wedding anniversary (& b/c we weren't able to celebrate our 15th anniversary in style), I took my wife to eat out at the Calgary Tower. This tower is a landmark of the city, and now having been to the top of it, it is a quite remarkable piece of engineering.
Here's a video showing how crazy (daring?) my beautiful wife is....
After a great meal, we went back to the observation deck where my vertigo kicked into high gear (I'm sure it had nothing to do with what I drank!).
Calgary is amazing to see at night all lit up. We had a great time, great conversation, great views. Thanks, Heather, for the great marriage!
Tuesday, August 25, 2009
Heard @ the Fergie's today...
Dad helping Miranda with a school problem:Dad: Can you tell me the name of a vegetable that rhymes with "potato"?
Miranda: Mashed potato?
------
At the dinner table:
Dad: Kevin, we need to mow the yard tonight.
Kevin: But there are bees out there.
Dad: Don't bother them and they won't bother you.
Kevin: Not true. You shoo them away and they come back with a buddy!
Monday, August 24, 2009
Who is John Galt?
Okay. So at the urging of my wife and my friend, Shawn, I've been reading Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged at night before bed. I'm some 250 pages into this novel of over 1000 pages. So far so good. It's an interesting read. I'm enjoying it (even though I'm not buying into her objectivist philosophy). Good story, etc.Except for one thing: when Rand feels the need to throw in a, um...let's call it, "romantic encounter," the whole thing becomes a train wreck (of the kind that Taggert Transcontinental would want desperately to avoid). Seriously, the whole things derails into some schmaltzy, cheap, third rate, Faubian-type crap. The book would be a lot better without it. Wife's advice: just skip it (which one has to do to avoid the unpleasant taste of the previous meal coming back up).
Okay, I got that off my chest. It needed to be said. [And I do feel the better for it.]
Friday, August 21, 2009
Happy 16th Anniversary, Heather!
Today, August 21st, marks the 16th year that I have been married to the greatest wife in the world, Heather. As anyone who knows us, she is the better half of the marriage, and I certainly got the better end of the deal.
I love the life that our Lord has given to us. We've been through so much together having lived in three countries now, having been given 5 wonderful kids. You still kill me with your gorgeous brown eyes, and I love being married to you. Thanks for all the memories. May God give us many, many more years together, until death do us part!
A Shout-Out to Joshua the Poet
My friend, Joshua, can wax eloquently when writing poetry. His topics cover the wide range of life-lived-as-a-Christian. But I especially love seeing through his eyes, and the camaraderie that can be experienced through similar life experiences. Some are serious, some are heartbreaking, some are just plain fun. Like this one. Check it out....
Why sleep when I can read?
Insomnia wrapped in gilded leaves,
Silent, but for the sounding swish,
As I deliciously turn and wish:
The story would never end,
The sun would never ascend,
My will would never bend—
To feeble needs of a body.
Why slumber whilst literacy,
Calls upon my eyes to see,
To spy a thought within the thought,
Follow an “is,” and discern an “ought:”
Why ought I to cease,
Why ought I be released,
When piece after piece after piece—
Of love and learning mingle?
Why doze when I can dream,
In far off forest and stream,
Worlds within worlds collide,
Stories within stories coincide:
Experiences out of flesh,
Experiences, weaving, mesh,
Why must I experience less—
By giving into darkness?
Be sure to check out his blog for others.
Posting Favorite Flickr Photos
I love photography (not that I'm particularly good at it; my wife's got the talent in our relationship), but I love looking at photos. I love how photos capture a particular moment, almost always a particular mood, and they help me to see God's world better.
I love flickr, and will explore the "interesting photos" categories when I have a spare moment (while talking on the phone, battling insomnia), etc. They have a neat feature that allows people to blog their photos so I will do that from time to time to share with my friends some of the discoveries that I find interesting. I hope you enjoy them as well. So, for example...
I love flickr, and will explore the "interesting photos" categories when I have a spare moment (while talking on the phone, battling insomnia), etc. They have a neat feature that allows people to blog their photos so I will do that from time to time to share with my friends some of the discoveries that I find interesting. I hope you enjoy them as well. So, for example...
Monday, August 17, 2009
This is awesome...
New scanning technique lets an expectant mother hold her unborn baby....
I wonder how this would alter the debate?
[Source]
I wonder how this would alter the debate?
[Source]
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